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Posts Tagged ‘Christians’

People will believe what they want to believe and if that is your belief of what I am doing that is fine with me. That is pretty judgmental when you do not know my story, but you are entitled to your opinion.  I cannot convince anyone of my beliefs; I cannot convince anyone of my intentions. I will tell you that I began my long journey in Mormonism believing what was told to me and asking many questions. Everything I asked sounded right until I realized that the terminology was the same and the intention or true belief behind that terminology was not the same. It was not right for someone to convince me or to try to convince me that something was true when they knew it was not what I was asking. Example: The Virgin Birth, when I asked if they believed in the Virgin Birth they said absolutely and they knew I meant a literal virgin yet they knew they believed in literal sex between God and Mary yet they refused to let me in on that little bit of information. This happened all the way down the line, sadly those that are Mormon in my family lied to me too. It was deceitful at best. I do not believe it is wise to just take a person’s word for anything. I believe that we are supposed to use the mind that was given to us. As I attended Mormon church, studied Mormon scripture, and was deep in the Mormon culture because of family and friends that have been Mormons for generations it began to be obvious that there were contradictions that I could not overlook. All I did was study and anyone that studies will see these things. You have to either turn a blind eye or you have to accept that something is wrong. Sadly, my quest was not to find anything wrong. I wanted it to be right. I wanted it to be true. Even sadder is the fact that it was not right, it was not true, and it was very deceitful. Judge me if you want but anyone that studies with an open heart wanting to find truth and not contradictions will find these contradictions anyway. It cannot stand up to scrutiny as the Bible can and Jesus of the Bible can.

For the record, if someone comments and it is insulting, could be offensive to others, uses foul language, or it is apparent that the person is just trying to antagonize and has no interest in a conversation with an open mind to discussing/considering the two things mandatory for salvation I will not waste your time or mine. I will not post your comment (depending on the nature and content of the comment). I do not apologize for that. I have many people that comment and want private dialog as well as public dialog so I will use G_d’s time speaking with those that truly want to learn. Debate for the sake of debate can happen on any blog or any street corner….I have no interest in debate just for the sake of debate. Most of these issues will never be agreed upon by the majority of Mormons. It is for those that are told the lie as I was, and FFF will offer them the true information so they may make an informed choice for themselves. It is also for those that do not know Mormonism at all yet that are also told it is Christian and told the lies to cover up the true beliefs. I will not apologize for telling the truth. People deserve that. They are smart enough to make their own choices and they deserve the facts in order to do just that. Some will still consider Mormonism but at least they know the true teachings and they have made that choice with factual information. This blog started because of Mitt Romney. I was frustrated that he was lying to people. I could not sit back and watch him lie to people knowing the church the way I do.

What are the two things mandatory for salvation in Christ Jesus?

1)      Jesus is G_d, and we are not

2)  Jesus rose bodily from the grave

Even if you are uncertain, but you are truly seeking information I am more than happy and willing to serve you. If after seeing what the mandatory beliefs of Salvation in Christ are if you are open to learning or you do believe that and you truly are seeking information please feel free to comment and ask questions, for text, and information.

With all of this said I have had some very precious dialog with some that do not at all hold the same beliefs however we agree to disagree and we are not trying to change one another. There is a mutual respect felt, appreciated, and honored. They are truly seeking information, not so much to change, but they truly are curious they do not want to fight, agitate, or try to influence me or my readers. We agree to disagree but it is nice to have friends with which you may do such a thing. It seems like true friendships are formed when people come together that do agree to disagree without having to be right or having to change the other person. Otherwise, it doesn’t seem sincere. Sincerity is truth and truth is love.

 Blessings to you all!

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Fundamentals of the Mormon Faith:  Definition of Fundamental: determining essential structure or function

god is an exalted man of flesh and bones.

god is a product of eternal progression.

The plurality of gods; men can become gods.

god organized the world rather than created it.

There is no eternall hell and punishment.

Intelligences are eternal, pre-existent spirits.

The everlasting covenant of plural marriage.

Necessity of Temples, baptism for the dead.

There are three degrees of glory.

There is a “mother” in heaven.

A Melchizedek and Aaronic Priesthood.

The offices and functions of Bishoprics, Stake, Presidencies, a First Presidency, and a President of the Church.

Either these doctrines must be found in the Book of Mormon or Mormonism is subject to the Judgement of Jesus from 3 Nephi 27:11; Alma 13:20, 2 Nephi 28:15; 2 Nephi 28:16; 21-24, 25.

The Book of Mormon Verses Mormon Doctrine

The Book of Mormon Mormon Doctrine
There is only one God
Mosiah 15:1,5; Alma 11:28; 2 Nephi 31:21
Mormonism teaches there are many gods.
Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5
The Trinity is one God
Alma 11:44; Mosiah 15:2-5; 2 Nephi 31:21, “T. of 3 Witnesses”, 3 Nephi 11:27, 40
The Trinity is three separate gods.
James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35. 1985.
God is unchanging
Mormon 9:9,19; Moroni 8:18; Alma 41:8; 3 Nephi 24:6
God is increasing in knowledge.
Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 120.
God is spirit
Alma 18:24,28; 22:9,11
God has the form of a man.
Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.
Eternal hell
Jacob 3:11; 6:10; 2 Nephi 19:16; 28:21-23.
Hell is not eternal.
James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 55.
Polygamy condemned
Jacob 1:15; Jacob 2:22-27,31;Jacob 3:5; Mosiah 11:2,4; Ether 10:5,7;
Polygamy was taught and practiced.
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266
More: The Book of Mormon Contradicts the Mormon Theology/fundamentals. See below:
Temple Oaths: Mormon 8:27; 2 Nephi 9:9; 2 Nephi 26: 22; Alma 34:36; Alma 37: 23, 31
Baptism for the dead: Alma 34:32, 35
Salvation: 2 Nephi 9: 21-23; Mosiah 3:18; Mosiah 5:7; Mosiah 27: 24-26; Alma 5:21; Alma 11: 40-41; Helaman 5: 9-11; 3 Nephi 11:33; Mormon 9: 23-24; Ether 3:14; Ether 4:18; Moroni 8:23
God Organized World: Mormon 9:17
Jesus A Separate God: 2 Nephi 11:7; 2 Nephi 26:12; Mosiah 3:5; Mosiah 7:27; Mosiah 13:34; Mosiah 15:1; Mosiah 16:15; Alma 11:38-39; 3 Nephi 11:27
Eternal Progression: Alma 41:8; 2 Nephi 24:6; Mormon 9: 9-10; Moroni 8:18
Polygamy: Jacob 1:15; Jacob 2: 22-27; Jacob 3:5; Mosiah 11:2; Ether 10:5;
No Trinity: 3 Nephi 11:27, 40; Alma 11:44, Mosiah 15: 2-5; 2 Nephi 31:21; “T. of 3 Witnesses”

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Can You Find These Mormon Teachings in the Bible or in the Book of Mormon?

A challenging game:

The Mormon church teaches that the Bible is “the word of God as far as it is translated correctly” Articles of Faith, No 8. Joseph Smith taught that the Book of Mormon is the most correct book “the fullness of the everlasting gospel” Doctrine & Covenants 27:5, 135:3 and also an addition to or supplement to the Bible. Please find the below references in the Bible and the Book of Mormon to support the following statements and teachings of the Mormon church. Check off the source that supports the statement whether the Bible or the Book of Mormon.

                                                                                                                       BIBLE      Book of Mormon

Sorry the lines are off balance:

1. The Mormon Priesthood is the only authority God recognizes and is

necessary for salvation.                                                                                    _____              _____

2. Temple Marriage For Eternity is necessary for exaltation to godhood. _____              _____

3. Baptism for the dead is required to save the dead.                               _____              _____

4. God was once a man on another planet who progressed to become

god of this world.                                                                                              _____              _____

5.  This god has a body of flesh and bones and is not a spirit.               _____              _____

6.  This god was selected by a council of gods and did not create man,

heaven or earth.                                                                                                _____              _____

7. This god had a father, who had a father, who had a father.                 _____              _____

8. This god is married to many wives and has millions of children.        _____              _____

9. Each individual has the potential to progress to become a god or

goddess of their own world.                                                                            _____              _____

10. This god is eternally progressing and learning new things each day to

become a better god.  Eternal Progression.                                                          _____              _____

11. Jesus was not born of a virgin because Mary was married to god

before she married Joseph.                                                                             _____              _____

12.  Jesus is the brother of Lucifer.                                                                 _____              _____

13. Jesus is also progressing and someday, he too, may become a god

of his own planet.                                                                                             _____              _____

14. Jesus is also married to several women and has many children.     _____              _____

15. The blood of Christ is not sufficient for the forgiveness of several

sins.                                                                                                                     _____              _____

The above statements are found in LDS/Mormon writings and they are doctrines that are taught however are not found in either the Bible or the Book of Mormon. If you see below you will find statements 1-15 and where they are taught in Mormon doctrine. If you look below that you will see statements 1-15 and where they are not supported in the Bible and what the Bible does say about these issues.

1. Doctrines of Salvation, Joseph Fielding Smith, Vol 3 page 80; Doctrine & Covenants 121:36; 84:21, 35; Gospel Principles, page 81  (Mormon Priesthood)

2. Doctrine & Covenants 132:20; Mormon Doctrine, Bruce McConkie page 118; The Temple Preparation Manual. (Temple Marriage)

3. Docrine & Covenants 128:15; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph F. Smith, page 193; Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, page 153; Alma 34:32, 35 (Baptism for the dead)

4. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith, 345-347; Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, page 321, Abraham 3:2-9; Journals of Discources, Vol. 6 page 3. (god once a man)

5. Doctrine & Covenants 130:22; Articles of Faith by James Talmage, pages 42-43; Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, page 589; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith, page 345; Journals of Discources, Vol 9, page 286 (god a body of flesh and not spirit)

6. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith, pages 348-350; 345 and 372; Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pages 163-164 and 169; Abraham 3:22 plus chapters 4 and 5; Journals of Discourses, Vol 6, pages 5-6; Doctrine and Covenants 93:29 (god did not create heaven or earth)

7. Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 322; Journals of Discourses, Vol 5 page 19; The Seer, by Orson Pratt, page 132; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith, pages 347, 370, and 373. (god had father who had father)

8. The Seer, by Orson Pratt, pages 158 and 172; Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 516; Doctrine and Covenants, Section 132. (god married to many wives, many children)

9. Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, page 321; Doctrine and Covenants 132: 20-21; Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, pages 430 and 530; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith, pages 346 and 374. (each individual may progress into a god/goddess of their own world)

10. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith, pages 345-348; Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, page 430; Journals of Discourses, Vol 6, page 120. Alma 41:8, 3 Nephi 24:6, Mormon 9:9-10, 19, Moroni 8:18 (god is eternally progressing)

11. The Seer, by Orson Pratt, page 158; Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pages 546-547; Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith, Vol. 1, page 18; Journals of Discourses, Vol. 8, page 115. (Jesus not born of a true virgin, she had sexual intercourse with god)

12. Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, pages 164, 192, 193, and 590; Gospel Through the Ages by Milton R. Hunter, page 15. (jesus brother of lucifer/satan)

13. Teachings of the Prophet Josepth Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith, pages, 346-348. (jesus progressing, he too may become a god of his own planet)

14. The Seer, by Orson Pratt, pages 159 and 172; Journals of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 210 and Vol 4. page 259. (jesus married to several women and has children)

15. Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith, Vol 1, page 135; Mormon Doctine, by Bruce McConkie, pages 92-93.  (blood of Christ not sufficient for several sins)

What the Bible says concerning the statements and doctrines taught in number 1-15 in order.

1. The Bible teaches Christ is the only Great High Priest and it can’t be passes from one to another: 1 Peter 2:4-10; Hebrews 4:14, 5:9-10, 7:24-25, 8: 1-2, 9:24.

2. The Bible teaches that marriage of man and woman is for this life only: Matthew 22:29-30; Mark 12: 24-25; Luke 20: 34-36;  Romans 7: 1-4.

3. The Bible teaches that there is no second chance after death: Proverbs 11:7; Ecclesiastes 9:10; Psalm 49: 7-8; Luke 16: 26-31; Hebrews 9:27.

4. The Bible teaches that God will reprove anyone who says God is like man: Psalm 50:21; Numbers 23:19; Hosea 11:9; Romans 1:22-23; Psalm 90:2.

5. The Bible teaches that God is a spirit: John 4:24; Luke 24:39; Jeremiah 23:24; Psalm 139:7-10.

6. The Bible teaches that God is the only God: Deuteronomy 4:35 and 6:4; Isaiah 43: 10-11 and 44: 6-8; and He created the heavens, earth and man our of nothing: Hebrews 11:3; Genesis 1:1; Colossians 1:16-17; John 1: 1-4; Romans 11:34-36; Job 38; Jeremiah 10: 11-12; Psalm 102:25; Psalm 90:2.

7. The Bible teaches that we should have no other gods before God: Exodus 34:14; Deuteronomy 5: 7-9.

8. The Bible teaches that they were fools who changed the uncorruptible God into an image like corruptible man: Romans 1: 22-23; Psalm 50:21; Numbers 23: 19; Hosea 11:9.

9. The Bible teaches that they will be brought down to the pit who say, “I am a god”. Genesis 3: 4-5, Isaiah 14: 12-15 and 44:6; Psalm 50:21; Ezekiel 28: 1-10.

10. The Bible teaches that God does not change: Isaiah 43:10; Malachi 3:6; 1 Samuel 15:29; John 1:1, and 1:14; Hebrews  1:12 and 13:8; James 1:17; Titus 1:2.

11. The Bible teaches that the Virgin Mary was with child from the Holy Spirit: Matthew 1: 18-23; Luke 1: 34-35.

12. The Bible teaches that Jesus created the heavens and the angels, including lucifer, who is a fallen angel: Isaiah 14:12-15; Psalm 33:6; Hebrews 11:3; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:15-17 and 2:9; John 1:3.

13. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever: Hebrews 13:8.

14. The Bible teaches that Jesus had no home: Matthew 8:20 and there is no evidence in the Bible that Jesus ever had any wives or children. He would have told us so. He was here for our salvation not to marry and have children.

15. The Bible teaches that the Blood of Jesus cleanses us from All sin: Romans 5: 8-9; 1 John 1: 7-10; Psalm 130: 3-4; Ephesians 2: 13-16; Colossians 2:13; 1 Corinthians 15: 3-4.

It is obvious from both the Mormon 1-15 and the Bible 1-15 that none of the doctrines and teachings in 1-5 are found in either the Bible or the Book of Mormon. However, it is taught that the Book of Mormon is the most complete book on earth. If it is so complete why add all of these additional doctrines that are in contradiction to the Book of Mormon? The Bible stands firm on what it teaches and Christian faith teaches only what is in the Bible. If it goes against the Word of God it is not to be accepted.

The Bible passages about salvation are below.

Romans 1:16; Acts 16:30-31 faith in Jesus; Ephesians 2:8-9 God’s grace, Acts 2:38 and 26:20 repentance, Romans 10:10 and Matthew 10: 32-33 expressing faith, Acts 2:41, 8:36-39 and 16:31-34 Baptism; 1 Peter 3:21.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him ” I am the way, the truth, and the life, No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 8:31-32 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My discipels indeed. 32 ” And you shall know the truth , and the truth shall make you free.”

Don’t take my word for it, don’t take anyone’s word for it, Don’t trust in a church, a teaching, or a living or an old prophet, trust in Jesus and His Word. Ask God to reveal Himself and His truth to you, prayerfully search the Bible daily to test what is true. May the Lord Jesus Christ richly bless you.

                                                 

The Book of Mormon Verses Mormon Doctrine

The Book of Mormon Mormon Doctrine
There is only one God
Mosiah 15:1,5; Alma 11:28; 2 Nephi 31:21
Mormonism teaches there are many gods.
Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5
The Trinity is one God
Alma 11:44; Mosiah 15:2-5; 2 Nephi 31:21, “T. of 3 Witnesses”, 3 Nephi 11:27, 40
The Trinity is three separate gods.
James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35. 1985.
God is unchanging
Mormon 9:9,19; Moroni 8:18; Alma 41:8; 3 Nephi 24:6
God is increasing in knowledge.
Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 120.
God is spirit
Alma 18:24,28; 22:9,11
God has the form of a man.
Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.
Eternal hell
Jacob 3:11; 6:10; 2 Nephi 19:16; 28:21-23.
Hell is not eternal.
James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 55.
Polygamy condemned
Jacob 1:15; Jacob 2:22-27,31;Jacob 3:5; Mosiah 11:2,4; Ether 10:5,7;
Polygamy was taught and practiced.
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266

More: The Book of Mormon Contradicts the Mormon Theology. See below:

Temple Oaths: Mormon 8:27; 2 Nephi 9:9; 2 Nephi 26: 22; Alma 34:36; Alma 37: 23, 31

Baptism for the dead: Alma 34:32, 35

Salvation: 2 Nephi 9: 21-23; Mosiah 3:18; Mosiah 5:7; Mosiah 27: 24-26; Alma 5:21; Alma 11: 40-41; Helaman 5: 9-11; 3 Nephi 11:33; Mormon 9: 23-24; Ether 3:14; Ether 4:18; Moroni 8:23

God Organized World: Mormon 9:17

Jesus A Separate God: 2 Nephi 11:7; 2 Nephi 26:12; Mosiah 3:5; Mosiah 7:27; Mosiah 13:34; Mosiah 15:1; Mosiah 16:15; Alma 11:38-39; 3 Nephi 11:27

Eternal Progression: Alma 41:8; 2 Nephi 24:6; Mormon 9: 9-10; Moroni 8:18

Polygamy: Jacob 1:15; Jacob 2: 22-27; Jacob 3:5; Mosiah 11:2; Ether 10:5;

No Trinity: 3 Nephi 11:27, 40; Alma 11:44, Mosiah 15: 2-5; 2 Nephi 31:21; “T. of 3 Witnesses”

Fundamental of the Mormon Faith:

god is an exalted man of flesh and bones.

god is a product of eternal progression.

The plurality of gods; men can become gods.

god organized the world rather than created it.

There is no eternall hell and punishment.

Intelligences are eternal, pre-existent spirits.

The everlasting covenant of plural marriage.

Necessity of Temples, baptism for the dead.

There are three degrees of glory.

There is a “mother” in heaven.

A Melchizedek and Aaronic Priesthood.

The offices and functions of Bishoprics, Stake, Presidencies, a First Presidency, and a President of the Church.

Either these doctrines must be found in the Book of Mormon or Mormonism is subject to the Judgement of Jesus from 3 Nephi 27:11; Alma 13:20, 2 Nephi 28:15; 2 Nephi 28:16; 21-24, 25.

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This is a question I keep getting. A true Christian would not hate a Mormon. A confused person may hate a Mormon or anyone else for that matter. If you truly follow God’s Word you would know He is love and we are instructed to love.

I believe the confusion comes in with any radical person or confused person that does hate or says things out of ignorance. Just as there are Jack Mormons or Mormons that speak on things they do not know and can make the Mormon faith look bad any religion can and will do the same. I know Mormonism because I have a LOT of Mormon family that go back to the days of polygamy and a sect of them still practice polygamy in Utah. However, the ones here do not openly practice polygamy yet they do look forward to polygamy in their heaven (or plural wives). To attain the fullness of their reward and faith that is a required act in their heaven and very positive reward, to which they look forward.

With that little bit of history I cannot ever hate Mormons or else I would hate a large portion of my own family. Hate is usually based out of fear. Fear of the unknown and this is why I do blog about Mormonism. It is sad that there is so much secrecy surrounding Mormonism because that very secrecy (called sacred)…if you are a Mormon you know what I mean by that…. is the very thing that causes the fear in people. People fear what they do not understand, what they do not know. You tell people to ask you if they have questions but that is threatening because then Mormon missionaries show up and even within the church you are discouraged from challenging Mormon beliefs so how can someone come from outside and do the very thing that a Mormon is not allowed to do? There is a lot of defensive action when questions are asked and I understand why because you care so much and you believe so deeply in your faith but that is threatening to some people. I know Mormons who will not discuss topics unless they are making a conversion and become very irritated so we do not discuss issues. I love them and I am happy to agree to disagree. I do have a few friends and family that are open to talking but the old school Mormons in my life have a very hard time and again I do understand why. However, to others that can be very threatening. I have many friends and family that are Mormons that don’t fully know what the faith teaches and that is sad, but in fairness there are people of every faith that don’t truly know what their faith teaches. I hope to offer enough Mormon based scripture to show from Mormon text what the beliefs are for those who are afraid to ask, for those who are seeking, or for anyone. I will offer bible text because that is what I believe but don’t be surprised when you see a blog I have written with only Mormon text.

In the long run it is not only Christians or other faiths that are confused or fearful it too is the Mormon who does not understand what a true Christian heart means towards them) and have sadly been hurt by people acting out of fear or ignorance. I wish I could take that away and I do apologize for any hurt that you have been dealt but know that Jesus Christ of the Bible would never want you to be treated in an unkind or unloving way and He would not approve and does not endorse such behavior. I cannot take that away but HE can, He’s the only One who can.

For the true believer that challenges the teachings of the Mormon faith, it is not a fear based thing, it is not a hate based thing. However, it can be and has been handled wrong by people, even those that may have good intentions. For Mormons who really want to know why TRUE Christians don’t agree with the teachings it is taught to hate the sin not the sinner. They are truly concerned about the deception and they are truly concerned about the souls of people who have good hearts. They are concerned for those that are told lies and for friends and family.

Also, when the very faith that they do not hold dear comes to the door at dinner time and invades their privacy, challenges the G_d they serve, and even runs for President it makes even those that never cared to know want to ask questions. There is probably confusion when the Mormon faith feels free to evangelise yet when they are challenged they say they are being persecuted. In truth, any faith is fair game to be probed and questioned. Any faith worth it’s salt can stand up to scrutiny and that does not mean it is persecution. It seems like there is more alienation coming from the Mormon faith by the irritation it holds when challenged or misunderstood. When you don’t tell people and there’s so much in secrecy it adds to that mystique and it really feeds the fire of confusion and misunderstanding. If everything were out on the table it would take that misunderstanding away. However, I do know that is not up to the individual Mormon. It would take a Modern day Prophet to give permission to unveil the secrets, rituals, and beliefs that cause the fear with the average person. Most Mormons I know are very happy to keep those secrets (the sacred things, well sacred), secret.

So, in closing I hope I was able to answer all of your questions and if I did not, please feel free to write and vent, debate, or talk freely. I hope it is clear that any true hatred is from a confused heart and G_d is not a G_d of confusion. So, someone acting that way is either not a true believer, a new believer that is not mature, or just a confused person that is truly hateful which would not be a representative of Christ. The other messages you are getting are from the non-disclosure and misunderstandings and people’s natural curiosity as well as fear. I am blessed to truly know the Mormon faith because I have seen it from the inside out and studied it. However, most people do not have a clue what it is all about which has led to much division.

In the end, some of the division comes from the fact that those who do fully know what the Mormon faith teaches and they 100% follow Jesus Christ of the Bible they do reject the teachings and there may be love for the Mormon but they have to be true to their own hearts and reject the things that are contradictory to what the Bible teaches. This is why a lot of Christians don’t want Mitt Romney as President (as well as those who are not Christians but don’t hold the Mormon faith). I did not want to believe that but I have heard it enough I do believe that it is true. However, it has not seemed to hurt him lately! I’ll blog about that more later and we may have open discussion on that topic as it is another hot topic left for it’s own discussion.

Please see other categories for Mormon doctrine and scripture to clear up questions. I am trying to blog and answer questions as they arise. There are many questions, my days are full, so it takes me a long while to respond sometimes. If it is urgent please let me know and I will try to give special attention to your question or comment.

Terminology:

Jack Mormon: For those that are not familiar to the term. For a Christian it would be equivalent to the backsliding Christian. If you go to http://www.livingwaters.com/ you will see that the whole backsliding Christian thing is misunderstood and understand false conversions. For those more unfamiliar it is a Mormon that does not hold the teachings, smokes, drinks, takes caffeine, things like that.

G_d= This is out of respect for my Jewish friends. The name of G_d is so special that it is not written in full out of respect. I try to keep this but there are times I have written it in full. Out of respect I do try to write it the correct way but please forgive when I have not. However, my Jewish friends are the most non-judgmental people I know. They are amazing and are a real example of how to be persecuted yet to walk tall and strong in faith. I wanted to explain for those who do not understand why the o is left out.  Personally, I feel that it is very sweet that there is so much respect given so I want to try to honor that.

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Joseph Smith: First Prophet and President and Founder of the Mormon Church:

“Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization.” History of the Church, Volume 5, pages 218-219

Joseph Fielding Smith: Tenth Prophet and President of the Mormon Church:

“Ham, through Egyptus, continued the curse which was placed upon the seed of Cain. Because of that curse this dark race was separated and isolated from all the rest of Adam’s posterity before the flood, and since that time the same condition has continued, and they have been ‘despised’ among all people.’ This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith….we all know it is due to his teachings that the negro today is barred from the Priesthood.” The Way to Perfection, pages 110-111

FamilyFriendsFreedom says: It speaks for itself. As do all of the other quotes from Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, & Bruce R. McConkie regarding this issue. If it has changed now that just shows how it is an ever changing religion with an ever changing god. The God of the bible is the same yesterday, today, and forever…He does not change, His laws do not change, His views do not change, and I can trust a God (the only God) that does not change. These quotes are not “out of context” they are from the prophets and Apostles own mouth.

For more on the Mormon Church and African Americans (the discrimination) see Categories for more items like:

Bruce R. McConkie: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“Those who were less valiant in the pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during morality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin….Noah’s son Ham married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood….The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man’s origin. It is the Lord’s doing, based on His eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate.” Mormon Doctrine, 10th printing, pages 527-528

Mark E. Peterson: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And When He placed them there, He segregated them….The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the negroes we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a dark skin upon them as a curse-as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse ….And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there. The Negro was cursed as to the Priesthood, and therefore, was cursed as to the blessings of the Priesthood, Certainly God made a segregation there.

“Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood. Are we prejudiced against him? Unjustly, sometimes we are accused of having such a prejudice. But what does the mercy of God have for him? This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa-if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost….

“If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse. There isn’t any argument, therefore, as to intermarriage with the Negro, is there? There are 50 million Negroes in the United States. If they were to achieve complete absorption with the white race, think what that would do. With 50 million Negroes inter-married with us, where would the priesthood be? Who could hold it, in all America? Think what that would do to the work of the Church!….

“Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation?” Race Problems-As They Affect The Church (address given at Brigham Young University)

 Joseph Fielding Smith: Tenth Prophet and President of the Mormon Church:

There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had and estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less….There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.” Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1, pages 66-67

“President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D. Young in a meeting held December 25, 1869, in Salt Lake City, said that Joseph Smith had declared that the negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits took sides, but the posterity of Cain are black because he (Cain) committed murder.” The Way to Perfection, pages 105-106

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How have people of color been treated and what have Mormon prophets said about people of color? 

When the LDS church began in 1830 segregation was the rule and even Christian churches discriminated against people of color….There is a HUGE difference because The Christian GOD did not discriminate against anyone (never has He discriminated against people of color) and the Mormon church’s god did proclarace. A curse was placed upon himim a curse against people of color so a people can make a huge mistake but for their god to make a mistake like that is pretty catastrophic. The true God says..(Galatians 3:28) “there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” Any Christian at that time that participated in slavery and segregation was ignoring Paul’s teaching that all men are free and one in Christ. God of the bible never had a part in that nor did the bible ever teach such a thing and remove it from it’s text years later. This is a religion that curses and entire people one day, and offers them greater privileges the next.

In their own words:

Brigham Young: Second Prophet and President of the Mormon Church ” I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture.” Journal of Discourses, Vol 13, page 95

He is saying his own teaching is scripture so for those Mormons that want to say well, it’s not scripture your own prophet says it was. If he’s lying then he’s a false prophet. You need to decide what you believe if he’s not a false prophet then his teachings are Scripture because he said so. So, here’s what he has to say about people of color.

“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly without the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his bretheren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark on him, which is the flat nose and black skin.Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race-that they should be the servant of servants;”and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.” Journal of Discourses, Vol 7, pages 290-291

FamilyFriendsFreedom says: Where in the bible does it say Cain was given a flat nose and black skin to curse him for killing his brother? Where does it say that he would be subject to being a black slave as would his ancestors until the curse was removed? IF it were true and IF the curse were removed then why are there still people with black skin? Black is beautiful people that’s why and there is no curse in the color black. Then, how dare he say people of color don’t have intelligence are wild and uncouth. He seems uncouth to me to say such a thing. Remember, Mitt Romney follows and holds dear the Mormon church’s teachings!

Another thing about slavery. I know a lot of people who have a lot of hard feelings about the slavery their people had to endure. If it was a DESERVED curse they have no reason to feel discriminated against, they have no reason to have such hard feelings today. The slavery of the African American was unjust, unfair, uncivilized, and can in no way be pushed onto the responsibility of God. Man made that disgusting choice and African Americans have every right to feel discriminated against because this was not a curse from God. It NEVER has been and it never will be.

“In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the “servant of servants” and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse, and those were known to be our religious views concerning them.” Journal of Discourses, Volume 2, page 172

FamilyFriendsFreedom says: So, they wouldn’t help slaves and had no thought of helping slaves become free because their god said people of color were cursed to be slaves….here he says it…..their Lord put them under the curse of slavery….

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” Journal of Discourses, Vol 10, page 110

FamilyFriendsFreedom says: The law of God, death on the spot for someone who mixes with people of African race….he also says it will always be so, so those who are marrying African Americans are not falling down dead today and why not if it is the law of God? You may say because the curse is lifted…….not according to this….it says it will ALWAYS be so, always is a long time, ALWAYS. Then, if it is the law of god then why would it change? My G_d does not change his laws, they have stayed the same since He first gave them. Why would you serve a god that changes his mind about so many things. Maybe, just maybe, he’ll change his mind about you too! The God of Abraham loves all of His creation. What I read in these teachings is not The God Of Abraham.

Joseph Smith: First Prophet and President and Founder of the Mormon Church:

“Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization.” History of the Church, Volume 5, pages 218-219

Bruce R. McConkie: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“Those who were less valiant in the pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during morality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin….Noah’s son Ham married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood….The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man’s origin. It is the Lord’s doing, based on His eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate.” Mormon Doctrine, 10th printing, pages 527-528

“Racial degeneration, resulting in differences in appearance and spiritual aptitude, has arisen since the fall. We know the circumstances under which the posterity of Cain (and later of Ham) were cursed with what we call negroid racial characteristics.” Mormon Doctrine, page 616

“Though he was a rebel and an associate of Lucifer in the pre-existence, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdidtion, Cain managed to attain the privilege of mortal birth….As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition.” Mormon Doctrine, page 109

“Through Ham (a name meaning black) “the blood of the Canaanites was preserved” through the flood, he having married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain….Negroes are thus descendants of Ham, who himself also was cursed, apparently for marrying into the forbidden lineage.” Mormon Doctrine, page 343

“….in a broad general sense, caste systems have their root and origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the Lord. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry.” Mormon Doctrine, page 114

Joseph Fielding Smith: Tenth Prophet and President of the Mormon Church:

“I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the Negro. Darkies are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church.” Look magazine, October 22, 1963, page 79

There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had and estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less….There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.” Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1, pages 66-67

“President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D. Young in a meeting held December 25, 1869, in Salt Lake City, said that Joseph Smith had declared that the negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits took sides, but the posterity of Cain are black because he (Cain) committed murder.” The Way to Perfection, pages 105-106

“That negro race, for instance, have been placed under restrictions because of their attitude in the world of spirits, few will doubt. It cannot be looked upon as just that they should be deprived of the power of the Priesthood without it being a punishment for some act, or acts, performed before they were born.” The Way to Perfection, page 43

“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior  and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning ….we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our negro brethren, for they are our brethren-children of God- not withstanding their black covering emblematic of eternal darkness.” The Way to Perfection, pages 101-102

“Ham, through Egyptus, continued the curse which was placed upon the seed of Cain. Because of that curse this dark race was separated and isolated from all the rest of Adam’s posterity before the flood, and since that time the same condition has continued, and they have been ‘despised’ among all people.’ This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith….we all know it is due to his teachings that the negro today is barred from the Priesthood.” The Way to Perfection, pages 110-111

John Taylor: Third Prophet and President of the Mormon Church:

“….after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham’s wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God;….” Journal of Discources, Volume 22, page 304

“When he (Satan) destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian worlds, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth.” Journal of Discources, Volume 23, page 336

Orson Pratt: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“….among the Saints (i.e., Mormons) is the most likely place for these (pre-existent) spirits to take their tabernacles, through a just and righteous parentage….The Lord has not kept them in store for five or six thousand years past, and kept them waiting for their bodies all this time to send them among the Hottentots, the African negroes, the idolatrous Hindoos, or any other of the fallen nations of the earth. They are not kept in reserve in order to come forth to receive such a degraded parentage upon the earth; no, the Lord is not such a being.” Journal of Discourses, Volume 1, page 63

Mark E. Peterson: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And When He placed them there, He segregated them….The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the negroes we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a dark skin upon them as a curse-as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse ….And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there. The Negro was cursed as to the Priesthood, and therefore, was cursed as to the blessings of the Priesthood, Certainly God made a segregation there.

“Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood. Are we prejudiced against him? Unjustly, sometimes we are accused of having such a prejudice. But what does the mercy of God have for him? This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa-if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost….

“If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse. There isn’t any argument, therefore, as to intermarriage with the Negro, is there? There are 50 million Negroes in the United States. If they were to achieve complete absorption with the white race, think what that would do. With 50 million Negroes inter-married with us, where would the priesthood be? Who could hold it, in all America? Think what that would do to the work of the Church!….

“Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation?” Race Problems-As They Affect The Church (address given at Brigham Young University)

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So, is it bigotry by Al Sharpton or bigotry by the Mormon faith? Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Before you answer are you up to date on the history of the oppression from the Mormon church against people of color?

 See our blog on Mormon History and People of Color for documented scripture references on black discrimination from the Mormon Church. Under Category Mormon Church and African Americans.

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