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Posts Tagged ‘Are Mormons Christians’

Well, someone asked this week how Joseph Smith died. Here’s the information I have on that question. Great question by the way.

It is said by Mormon historians that Joseph Smith died in a blazing gunfight with his enemies. The documented truth about his death shows :

“…there was… a discharge of three or four firearms…. Joseph sprang to his coat for his six-shooter… he discharged his six-shooter in the stairway… two or three barrels of which missed fire. the History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 617-18

    “Joseph,… dropped his pistol on the floor, and sprang into the window…”

John Taylor: Third Prophet and President of the Mormon Church:  testified that Joseph Smith “snapped the pistol six successive times; only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed died.” (History of the Church, vol. 7, pp. 102-3)

Why did he die:    One of the major reasons that led to Joseph Smith’s death was his order to destroy a newspaper. However, that does not make how he died or the fact that he was killed acceptable, it was just a major contributing factor.

Kenneth W. Godfrey a Mormon Scholar:

“The Prophet’s mayoral order, with the consent of the city council, to destroy the Nauvoo Expositor became the immediate excuse to stamp out his life…. Perhaps in retrospect both Mormons and Gentiles were partly to blame for conflict which developed between then.” (Brigham Young University Studies, Winter 1968, pp. 213-14) The Prophet’s mayoral order refers to Joseph Smith.

 “Mayor (Joseph Smith) said, if he had a City Council who felt as he did, the establishment would be declared a nuisance before night.… Hyrum Smith believed the best way was to smash the press and pi the type.” (History of the Church, vol. 6, pp. 441, 445) The establishment was the Nauvoo Expositor

The Nauvoo Expositor was a paper that was run by people who were prominent at one time in the Mormon church but opposed Joseph Smith’s teachings on polygamy and they also were in objection to his political ambitions. The paper showed obedience to the law and high moral standards yet it was rejected by Mormons as a scandalous and vile publication. In an affidavit published in the Expositor, June 7, 1844, Austin Cowles charged that he had seen “a revelation given through the Prophet” which taught “the doctrine of a plurality of wives.” Austin Cowles was called a liar by the Mormon leaders, however eight years after Joseph Smith’s death they published the revelation on polygamy. This revelation can be found in the Doctrine and Covenants in Section 132. The Expositor was shown to have told the truth (but the proof did not come until the revelations where printed in the Church’s own teachings years later). The Expositor was condemned by Joseph Smith and his brother, Hyrum. The claims of the Expositor were in fact true and  true by the Mormon Church’s own documents as said in Doctrine and Covenants Section 132 by stating the very fact that the Church had earlier denied and the very reason the Church destroyed the press in the first place.

The press was ordered to be destroyed “passed an ordinance declaring the Nauvoo Expositor a nuisance” by the Nauvoo City Council.

 “The Council… issued an order to me to abate the said nuisance. I immediately ordered the Marshal to destroy it without delay.… About 8 p.m., the Marshal returned and reported that he had removed the press, type, printed paper, and fixtures into the street and destroyed them.” (History of the Church vol. 6, p. 432)

B. H. Roberts: Mormon historian:  “the legality of the action of the Mayor and City Council was, of course, questionable,… neither proof or argument for legality are convincing. On the grounds of expediency or necessity the action is more defensible.” (History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 432)

Vilate Kimball, wife of Heber C. Kimball: “June 11th. Nauvoo was a scene of excitement last night. Some hundreds of the brethren turned out and burned the press of the opposite party.” Letter published in Life of Heber C. Kimball, p. 340

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Joseph Smith: First Prophet and President and Founder of the Mormon Church:

“Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization.” History of the Church, Volume 5, pages 218-219

Joseph Fielding Smith: Tenth Prophet and President of the Mormon Church:

“Ham, through Egyptus, continued the curse which was placed upon the seed of Cain. Because of that curse this dark race was separated and isolated from all the rest of Adam’s posterity before the flood, and since that time the same condition has continued, and they have been ‘despised’ among all people.’ This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith….we all know it is due to his teachings that the negro today is barred from the Priesthood.” The Way to Perfection, pages 110-111

FamilyFriendsFreedom says: It speaks for itself. As do all of the other quotes from Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, & Bruce R. McConkie regarding this issue. If it has changed now that just shows how it is an ever changing religion with an ever changing god. The God of the bible is the same yesterday, today, and forever…He does not change, His laws do not change, His views do not change, and I can trust a God (the only God) that does not change. These quotes are not “out of context” they are from the prophets and Apostles own mouth.

For more on the Mormon Church and African Americans (the discrimination) see Categories for more items like:

Bruce R. McConkie: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“Those who were less valiant in the pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during morality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin….Noah’s son Ham married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood….The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man’s origin. It is the Lord’s doing, based on His eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate.” Mormon Doctrine, 10th printing, pages 527-528

Mark E. Peterson: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And When He placed them there, He segregated them….The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the negroes we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a dark skin upon them as a curse-as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse ….And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there. The Negro was cursed as to the Priesthood, and therefore, was cursed as to the blessings of the Priesthood, Certainly God made a segregation there.

“Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood. Are we prejudiced against him? Unjustly, sometimes we are accused of having such a prejudice. But what does the mercy of God have for him? This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa-if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost….

“If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse. There isn’t any argument, therefore, as to intermarriage with the Negro, is there? There are 50 million Negroes in the United States. If they were to achieve complete absorption with the white race, think what that would do. With 50 million Negroes inter-married with us, where would the priesthood be? Who could hold it, in all America? Think what that would do to the work of the Church!….

“Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation?” Race Problems-As They Affect The Church (address given at Brigham Young University)

 Joseph Fielding Smith: Tenth Prophet and President of the Mormon Church:

There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had and estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less….There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.” Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1, pages 66-67

“President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D. Young in a meeting held December 25, 1869, in Salt Lake City, said that Joseph Smith had declared that the negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits took sides, but the posterity of Cain are black because he (Cain) committed murder.” The Way to Perfection, pages 105-106

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How have people of color been treated and what have Mormon prophets said about people of color? 

When the LDS church began in 1830 segregation was the rule and even Christian churches discriminated against people of color….There is a HUGE difference because The Christian GOD did not discriminate against anyone (never has He discriminated against people of color) and the Mormon church’s god did proclarace. A curse was placed upon himim a curse against people of color so a people can make a huge mistake but for their god to make a mistake like that is pretty catastrophic. The true God says..(Galatians 3:28) “there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” Any Christian at that time that participated in slavery and segregation was ignoring Paul’s teaching that all men are free and one in Christ. God of the bible never had a part in that nor did the bible ever teach such a thing and remove it from it’s text years later. This is a religion that curses and entire people one day, and offers them greater privileges the next.

In their own words:

Brigham Young: Second Prophet and President of the Mormon Church ” I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture.” Journal of Discourses, Vol 13, page 95

He is saying his own teaching is scripture so for those Mormons that want to say well, it’s not scripture your own prophet says it was. If he’s lying then he’s a false prophet. You need to decide what you believe if he’s not a false prophet then his teachings are Scripture because he said so. So, here’s what he has to say about people of color.

“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly without the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his bretheren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark on him, which is the flat nose and black skin.Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race-that they should be the servant of servants;”and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.” Journal of Discourses, Vol 7, pages 290-291

FamilyFriendsFreedom says: Where in the bible does it say Cain was given a flat nose and black skin to curse him for killing his brother? Where does it say that he would be subject to being a black slave as would his ancestors until the curse was removed? IF it were true and IF the curse were removed then why are there still people with black skin? Black is beautiful people that’s why and there is no curse in the color black. Then, how dare he say people of color don’t have intelligence are wild and uncouth. He seems uncouth to me to say such a thing. Remember, Mitt Romney follows and holds dear the Mormon church’s teachings!

Another thing about slavery. I know a lot of people who have a lot of hard feelings about the slavery their people had to endure. If it was a DESERVED curse they have no reason to feel discriminated against, they have no reason to have such hard feelings today. The slavery of the African American was unjust, unfair, uncivilized, and can in no way be pushed onto the responsibility of God. Man made that disgusting choice and African Americans have every right to feel discriminated against because this was not a curse from God. It NEVER has been and it never will be.

“In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the “servant of servants” and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse, and those were known to be our religious views concerning them.” Journal of Discourses, Volume 2, page 172

FamilyFriendsFreedom says: So, they wouldn’t help slaves and had no thought of helping slaves become free because their god said people of color were cursed to be slaves….here he says it…..their Lord put them under the curse of slavery….

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” Journal of Discourses, Vol 10, page 110

FamilyFriendsFreedom says: The law of God, death on the spot for someone who mixes with people of African race….he also says it will always be so, so those who are marrying African Americans are not falling down dead today and why not if it is the law of God? You may say because the curse is lifted…….not according to this….it says it will ALWAYS be so, always is a long time, ALWAYS. Then, if it is the law of god then why would it change? My G_d does not change his laws, they have stayed the same since He first gave them. Why would you serve a god that changes his mind about so many things. Maybe, just maybe, he’ll change his mind about you too! The God of Abraham loves all of His creation. What I read in these teachings is not The God Of Abraham.

Joseph Smith: First Prophet and President and Founder of the Mormon Church:

“Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization.” History of the Church, Volume 5, pages 218-219

Bruce R. McConkie: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“Those who were less valiant in the pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during morality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin….Noah’s son Ham married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood….The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom, but this inequality is not of man’s origin. It is the Lord’s doing, based on His eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the lack of spiritual valiance of those concerned in their first estate.” Mormon Doctrine, 10th printing, pages 527-528

“Racial degeneration, resulting in differences in appearance and spiritual aptitude, has arisen since the fall. We know the circumstances under which the posterity of Cain (and later of Ham) were cursed with what we call negroid racial characteristics.” Mormon Doctrine, page 616

“Though he was a rebel and an associate of Lucifer in the pre-existence, and though he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdidtion, Cain managed to attain the privilege of mortal birth….As a result of his rebellion, Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition.” Mormon Doctrine, page 109

“Through Ham (a name meaning black) “the blood of the Canaanites was preserved” through the flood, he having married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain….Negroes are thus descendants of Ham, who himself also was cursed, apparently for marrying into the forbidden lineage.” Mormon Doctrine, page 343

“….in a broad general sense, caste systems have their root and origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the approval of the Lord. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole negro race have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of Adam should not intermarry.” Mormon Doctrine, page 114

Joseph Fielding Smith: Tenth Prophet and President of the Mormon Church:

“I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the Negro. Darkies are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church.” Look magazine, October 22, 1963, page 79

There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had and estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less….There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.” Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1, pages 66-67

“President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D. Young in a meeting held December 25, 1869, in Salt Lake City, said that Joseph Smith had declared that the negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits took sides, but the posterity of Cain are black because he (Cain) committed murder.” The Way to Perfection, pages 105-106

“That negro race, for instance, have been placed under restrictions because of their attitude in the world of spirits, few will doubt. It cannot be looked upon as just that they should be deprived of the power of the Priesthood without it being a punishment for some act, or acts, performed before they were born.” The Way to Perfection, page 43

“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior  and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning ….we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our negro brethren, for they are our brethren-children of God- not withstanding their black covering emblematic of eternal darkness.” The Way to Perfection, pages 101-102

“Ham, through Egyptus, continued the curse which was placed upon the seed of Cain. Because of that curse this dark race was separated and isolated from all the rest of Adam’s posterity before the flood, and since that time the same condition has continued, and they have been ‘despised’ among all people.’ This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith….we all know it is due to his teachings that the negro today is barred from the Priesthood.” The Way to Perfection, pages 110-111

John Taylor: Third Prophet and President of the Mormon Church:

“….after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham’s wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God;….” Journal of Discources, Volume 22, page 304

“When he (Satan) destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian worlds, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth.” Journal of Discources, Volume 23, page 336

Orson Pratt: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“….among the Saints (i.e., Mormons) is the most likely place for these (pre-existent) spirits to take their tabernacles, through a just and righteous parentage….The Lord has not kept them in store for five or six thousand years past, and kept them waiting for their bodies all this time to send them among the Hottentots, the African negroes, the idolatrous Hindoos, or any other of the fallen nations of the earth. They are not kept in reserve in order to come forth to receive such a degraded parentage upon the earth; no, the Lord is not such a being.” Journal of Discourses, Volume 1, page 63

Mark E. Peterson: of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon Church:

“Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And When He placed them there, He segregated them….The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the negroes we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a dark skin upon them as a curse-as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse ….And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there. The Negro was cursed as to the Priesthood, and therefore, was cursed as to the blessings of the Priesthood, Certainly God made a segregation there.

“Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood. Are we prejudiced against him? Unjustly, sometimes we are accused of having such a prejudice. But what does the mercy of God have for him? This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa-if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost….

“If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse. There isn’t any argument, therefore, as to intermarriage with the Negro, is there? There are 50 million Negroes in the United States. If they were to achieve complete absorption with the white race, think what that would do. With 50 million Negroes inter-married with us, where would the priesthood be? Who could hold it, in all America? Think what that would do to the work of the Church!….

“Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation?” Race Problems-As They Affect The Church (address given at Brigham Young University)

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http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com/ 

Just click the link above it will take you there.

Very thought provoking, smart, funny, he answers his bloggers too.

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 Mormon Doctrine says:

 “…no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith…. Every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance… I cannot go there without his consent.… He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as Goddoes in heaven.” Joural of Discourses (vol. 7, p. 289)

Why bother with Jesus then? Why pretend He’s the savior if you need Joseph Smith’s consent to enter heaven. Jesus says He is the way the thruth and the life and no man enters into heaven but through Him.

Jesus says:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Who do you believe….Joseph or Jesus?

Mormon teaching says:

Remarks by President BRIGHAM YOUNG, delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859. Reported by G. D. Watt

Journal of Discourses Vol 7, 289

Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—”Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true.

I will now tell you something that ought to comfort every man and woman on the face of the earth. Joseph Smith, junior, will again be on this earth dictating plans and calling forth his brethren to be baptized for the very characters who wish this was not so, in order to bring them into a kingdom to enjoy, perhaps, the presence of angels or the spirits of good men, if they cannot endure the presence of the Father and the Son; and he will never cease his operations, under the directions of the Son of God, until the last ones of the children of men are saved that can be, from Adam till now.

Should not this thought comfort all people? They will, by-and-by, be a thousand times more thankful for such a man as Joseph Smith, junior, than it is possible for them to be for any earthly good whatever. It is his mission to see that all the children of men in this last dispensation are saved, that can be, through the redemption. You will be thankful, every one of you, that Joseph Smith, junior, was ordained to this great calling before the worlds were. I told you that the doctrine of election and reprobation is a true doctrine. It was decreed. in the counsels of eternity, long before the foundations of the earth were laid, that he should be the man, in the last dispensation of this world, to bring forth the word of God to the people, and receive the fulness of the keys and power of the Priesthood of the Son of God. The Lord had his eye upon him, and upon his father, and upon his father’s father, and upon their progenitors clear back to Abraham, and from Abraham to the flood, from the flood to Enoch, and, from Enoch to Adam. He has watched that family and that blood as it has circulated from its fountain to the page 290 birth of that man. He was foreordained in eternity to preside over this last dispensation, as much so as Pharaoh was foreordained to be a wicked man, or as was Jesus to be the Saviour of the world because he was the oldest son in the family.

The bible says:You believe Jesus for who He says He is, or you believe joseph smith and his version of the mormon jesus. They are not the same for Jesus says there will be false Christs that come and this is certainly a false christ, Jesus Christ of the bible is the True Christ. However, you are free to choose because He loves you that much. He gives you the love, the info, and He gave you the intelligence to make your own decisions. Then He loved you so much He gave you free choice even if that means not choosing Him.

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He said he was:

“Well, now, examine the character of the Savior, and examine the character of those who have written the Old and New Testaments; and then compare them with the character of Joseph Smith, the founder of this work… and you will find that his character stands as fair as that of any man’s mentioned in the Bible. We can find no person who presents a better character to the world when the facts are known than Joseph Smith, Jun., the prophet and his brother Hyrum Smith, who was murdered with him.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 14 p. 203)

They just said that even Jesus did not have better character than Joseph Smith…then why is Jesus even mentioned or necessary?

    “…no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith…. Every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance… I cannot go there without his consent.… He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven.” (vol. 7, p. 289)

Why bother with Jesus then? Why pretend He’s the savior if you need Joseph Smith’s consent to enter heaven. Jesus says He is the way the truth and the life and no man enters into heaven but through Him. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Who do you believe….Joseph or Jesus?

in 1844 Josiah Quincy visited Joseph Smith and he said that Joseph Smith said this to him :

“the prophet put this inquiry: ‘Is not here one greater than Solomon, who built a Temple with the treasures of his father David and with the assistance of Huram [sic], King of Tyre? Joseph Smith has built his Temple with no one to aid him in the work.’ ” (Figures of the Past, as cited in Among the Mormons, p. 138)

The History of the Church has statements that show how Joseph Smith seemed to feel he was equal with God.     “God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don’t like it, you must lump it.” (vol. 6, pp.319-320)

    “If they want a beardless boy to whip all the world, I will get on the top of the mountain and crow like a rooster. I shall always beat them…. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.” (vol. 6, pp. 408-9)

 Well, it seems in his own words that he felt he was greater than Jesus, and no one can enter heaven without his consent not the consent of Jesus. Then, why did Jesus die? His death was a joke, was a mockery, was useless if Joseph Smith gives the consent to get into heaven……why is Jesus necessary for salvation. According to Mormon Doctrine Jesus Christ of the Bible is not the ONLY way of salvation! In TRUTH and in the TRUE BIBLE the ONLY way to eternal life, is without works (not because of works you don’t work your way into heaven), by grace alone, by accepting HIS blood ONLY for salvation and accepting His true virgin birth. The Mormon teaching makes him not necessary but Joseph is….So, who do you believe? According to Orson Pratt you are not allowed to make up your own mind concerning this, or speak of these things even if you do not agree. Is that fair? Is that loving? Or is that just mind control? Hmmmm.

An acquaintance of mine was bothered that I said Jesus is not necessary for salvation and that it is taught in their Doctrine. This acquaintance is a Mormon and he does believe that his Jesusis necessary for salvation but he did agree that his Jesus and the Jesus that Born again Christians believe in are different, so my statement stands because I am speaking of the TRUE JESUS of the BIBLE. However, I wanted to at least give him the benefit of doubt and make clear the difference in the Jesus about which I speak, because he says he believes in his Jesus for salvation. I told him I would make clear that I was speaking about the Jesus of Born Again Christians, the Jesus of the Bible, and not his Jesus of the Mormon Church. I hope this is more clear to readers. In my comment to him I tried to explain that even if his Jesus is required for salvation that if Joseph says he’s greater than Jesus and Joseph Smith’s consent is required to get into heaven it would make him greater than Jesus. One has to decide which to believe. One Jesus is a lie, they cannot both be true. If there is any other way to heaven than through Jesus Christ of the Bible then His Virgin Birth, His SINLESS life, and HIS death, and Resurrection were worthless. Then as far as making your own choice here’s what Orson Pratt says:

Orson Pratt says:

“Have we not a right to make up our minds in relation to the things recorded in the word of God, and speak about them, whether the living oracles believe our views or not? We have not the right.” Orson Pratt, Ibid, pg. 374

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Preacher of Righteousness 

(Elder Bruce McConkie, The Ensign, June 1985) 

President, Ezra Taft Benson, eulogized McConkie as such and stated:

“Thanks be to God that Elder McConkie’s written words of testimony remain to continue to bless a world that needs them so desperately…

Often, when a doctrinal questions came before the First Presidency and the Twelve, Elder McConkie was asked to quote the scripture or to comment on the matter. He could quote scripture verbatim and at great length. He provided the entire Church with an example of gospel scholarship. He could teach the (restored) gospel with ease because he first understood the (restored) gospel.”

If McConkie was the one the First Presidency called on for clarity, shouldn’t that be good enough for all Mormons and shouldn’t we all be willing to accept what he wrote and taught as true LDS doctrine? We think so.

~~~~~end~~~~~ This is the same Bruce McConkie that taught that “The titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used to identify all churches…-which are designed to take men on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation…There is no salvation outside this one true Church,…” “There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 1-350.)” Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 137, 138, 670

and~

“Hence, true and acceptable Chrisianity is found among the saints who have the fulness of the gospel, and a perverted Chritianity holds sway amont the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom. In these circles it is believed and taught that Christianity had its beginning with the mortal ministry of our Lord. Actually, of course, Adam was the first Christian,…” Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine

and~Bruce R. McConkie, one of the 12 Apostles, writes in his Book, Mormon Doctrine:

SON OF GOD

God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived  and born in the normal course of events, for he is the son of God, and that designation means what it says. Page 742

(he’s saying that Mary was not a virgin because she had sex with God and Jesus is literaly God’s son). The first statement read by EzraTaft Benson about Bruce McConkie saying his teachings were Doctrine and here McConkie says Jesus was not a virgin birth in Mormon Doctrine so this is Mormon Doctrine).

See also page 742 in Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie

Page 743 SON OF MARY

-but the Holy Ghost is not the Father of Christ-and whenthe Child was born, he was “the Son of the Eternal Father.”  

(why is this strange? The bible says Mary was given Jesus by the Holy Spirit (not sexual) and the Book of Mormon does too, but Mormon Doctrine says it’s not true). If the Book of Mormon is the most complete book on earth then why would it not say the right thing? If it is right then Bruce McConkie is wrong, but Mormons hold his teaching as Doctrine. It does not all add up.

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