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Archive for the ‘Mormon Doctrine of the Virgin Birth’ Category

People will believe what they want to believe and if that is your belief of what I am doing that is fine with me. That is pretty judgmental when you do not know my story, but you are entitled to your opinion.  I cannot convince anyone of my beliefs; I cannot convince anyone of my intentions. I will tell you that I began my long journey in Mormonism believing what was told to me and asking many questions. Everything I asked sounded right until I realized that the terminology was the same and the intention or true belief behind that terminology was not the same. It was not right for someone to convince me or to try to convince me that something was true when they knew it was not what I was asking. Example: The Virgin Birth, when I asked if they believed in the Virgin Birth they said absolutely and they knew I meant a literal virgin yet they knew they believed in literal sex between God and Mary yet they refused to let me in on that little bit of information. This happened all the way down the line, sadly those that are Mormon in my family lied to me too. It was deceitful at best. I do not believe it is wise to just take a person’s word for anything. I believe that we are supposed to use the mind that was given to us. As I attended Mormon church, studied Mormon scripture, and was deep in the Mormon culture because of family and friends that have been Mormons for generations it began to be obvious that there were contradictions that I could not overlook. All I did was study and anyone that studies will see these things. You have to either turn a blind eye or you have to accept that something is wrong. Sadly, my quest was not to find anything wrong. I wanted it to be right. I wanted it to be true. Even sadder is the fact that it was not right, it was not true, and it was very deceitful. Judge me if you want but anyone that studies with an open heart wanting to find truth and not contradictions will find these contradictions anyway. It cannot stand up to scrutiny as the Bible can and Jesus of the Bible can.

For the record, if someone comments and it is insulting, could be offensive to others, uses foul language, or it is apparent that the person is just trying to antagonize and has no interest in a conversation with an open mind to discussing/considering the two things mandatory for salvation I will not waste your time or mine. I will not post your comment (depending on the nature and content of the comment). I do not apologize for that. I have many people that comment and want private dialog as well as public dialog so I will use G_d’s time speaking with those that truly want to learn. Debate for the sake of debate can happen on any blog or any street corner….I have no interest in debate just for the sake of debate. Most of these issues will never be agreed upon by the majority of Mormons. It is for those that are told the lie as I was, and FFF will offer them the true information so they may make an informed choice for themselves. It is also for those that do not know Mormonism at all yet that are also told it is Christian and told the lies to cover up the true beliefs. I will not apologize for telling the truth. People deserve that. They are smart enough to make their own choices and they deserve the facts in order to do just that. Some will still consider Mormonism but at least they know the true teachings and they have made that choice with factual information. This blog started because of Mitt Romney. I was frustrated that he was lying to people. I could not sit back and watch him lie to people knowing the church the way I do.

What are the two things mandatory for salvation in Christ Jesus?

1)      Jesus is G_d, and we are not

2)  Jesus rose bodily from the grave

Even if you are uncertain, but you are truly seeking information I am more than happy and willing to serve you. If after seeing what the mandatory beliefs of Salvation in Christ are if you are open to learning or you do believe that and you truly are seeking information please feel free to comment and ask questions, for text, and information.

With all of this said I have had some very precious dialog with some that do not at all hold the same beliefs however we agree to disagree and we are not trying to change one another. There is a mutual respect felt, appreciated, and honored. They are truly seeking information, not so much to change, but they truly are curious they do not want to fight, agitate, or try to influence me or my readers. We agree to disagree but it is nice to have friends with which you may do such a thing. It seems like true friendships are formed when people come together that do agree to disagree without having to be right or having to change the other person. Otherwise, it doesn’t seem sincere. Sincerity is truth and truth is love.

 Blessings to you all!

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Preacher of Righteousness 

(Elder Bruce McConkie, The Ensign, June 1985) 

President, Ezra Taft Benson, eulogized McConkie as such and stated:

“Thanks be to God that Elder McConkie’s written words of testimony remain to continue to bless a world that needs them so desperately…

Often, when a doctrinal questions came before the First Presidency and the Twelve, Elder McConkie was asked to quote the scripture or to comment on the matter. He could quote scripture verbatim and at great length. He provided the entire Church with an example of gospel scholarship. He could teach the (restored) gospel with ease because he first understood the (restored) gospel.”

If McConkie was the one the First Presidency called on for clarity, shouldn’t that be good enough for all Mormons and shouldn’t we all be willing to accept what he wrote and taught as true LDS doctrine? We think so.

~~~~~end~~~~~ This is the same Bruce McConkie that taught that “The titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used to identify all churches…-which are designed to take men on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation…There is no salvation outside this one true Church,…” “There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 1-350.)” Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 137, 138, 670

and~

“Hence, true and acceptable Chrisianity is found among the saints who have the fulness of the gospel, and a perverted Chritianity holds sway amont the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom. In these circles it is believed and taught that Christianity had its beginning with the mortal ministry of our Lord. Actually, of course, Adam was the first Christian,…” Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine

and~Bruce R. McConkie, one of the 12 Apostles, writes in his Book, Mormon Doctrine:

SON OF GOD

God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived  and born in the normal course of events, for he is the son of God, and that designation means what it says. Page 742

(he’s saying that Mary was not a virgin because she had sex with God and Jesus is literaly God’s son). The first statement read by EzraTaft Benson about Bruce McConkie saying his teachings were Doctrine and here McConkie says Jesus was not a virgin birth in Mormon Doctrine so this is Mormon Doctrine).

See also page 742 in Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie

Page 743 SON OF MARY

-but the Holy Ghost is not the Father of Christ-and whenthe Child was born, he was “the Son of the Eternal Father.”  

(why is this strange? The bible says Mary was given Jesus by the Holy Spirit (not sexual) and the Book of Mormon does too, but Mormon Doctrine says it’s not true). If the Book of Mormon is the most complete book on earth then why would it not say the right thing? If it is right then Bruce McConkie is wrong, but Mormons hold his teaching as Doctrine. It does not all add up.

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Text from Mormon Doctrines with some notes under the text or as introduction (My Notes in Italics).

1. God and Mary were married taught by Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158

The flesh body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Savior unlawfully. Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158

Does this seem incestuous to marry your own child and create a child together?

2. The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood-was begotten of his Father, as we are of our fathers. Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:115

In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it. Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 8:2113.

Christ was begotten of God. He was NOT born without the aid of man and that man was God!” Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1:184. Joseph was the second husband of Mary because God was her first husband (Introduction Mine) (the following is Mormon Doctrine):

Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity. Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 1585.

If none but Gods will be permitted to multiply immortal children, it follows that each God must have one or more wives. God, the Father of our spirits, became the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 1586. They again teach that Mary was married to God the Father:The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. By Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 11:2687.

This was taught by Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th Prophet of the Mormon Church:

“They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The book of Mormon teaches No Such Thing! Neither does the Bible!” Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1:19

What the bible does say (Really says): The bible says she was a Virgin and it was from the Holy Spirit (not sexual) Matthew 1:18-23 & Luke 1: 34-35   THE HOLY BIBLE: King James Version

Matthew 1: 18-23

18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.  19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.  20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.  21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.  22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,  23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Luke 1: 34-35

34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?  35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

So, the bible believes in the Virgin Birth and the Mormon doctrines do not believe in the TrueVirgin Birth, although they will say they do. If they say they do believe in the True Virgin Birth without sexual intercourse, they do not follow their own doctrines.

See documents for research on this topic: Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, pages 546-547;

8.Bruce R. McConkie was one of 12 Apostles, wrote a book called Mormon Doctrine, and in his book he says:

God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage, And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the son of God, and that designation means what it says. page 742 Mormon Doctrine Bruce McConkie

Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man. “In the language of Adam, Man of Holiness” is the name of God  Page 742 Mormon Doctrine Bruce McConkie

-but the Holy Ghost is not the Father of Christ-and when the Child was born, he was “the Son of the Eternal Father.” Page 743 Bruce McConkie

These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers. Page 546 Mormon Doctrine Bruce McConkie

To accept the Mormon Doctrine would be to make a mockery of the Bible.  It is impossible to believe the Mormon Doctrine and say you believe the Bible. Yet Mitt Romney said he believed in the bible. These are a few things that I wanted to call into the light because I knew it was not true.

God says in His Word In Isaiah Chapter 7: 13-14

13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?

14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Im-man’-u-el. 

There is more on this topic I believe so I will post that as I find time.

  

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“Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” The Apostle Paul (Galatians 4:16) King James Version

The Apostle says:  NKJV in Galatians 4:16

Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?

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I talked to someone recently that did not believe that the Mormon doctrine teaches literal sex in their version of the Virgin Birth, and that Marry was a virgin only before she became pregnant and that’s how they can call it a virgin birth. But they believe she was not a virgin after the conception (but who is a virgin after conception)? Unless, it was a miracle of God, which God says, is the truth.

The bible teaches that it was a true virgin birth and that is the foundation of Christian beliefs. Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus.

 I told this person that I would find the documents that I had and prove what I had read with their own text. Sadly, my new acquaintance said that regardless of what the church teaches that it really does not matter. All that matters is that it happened and the details aren’t that big of deal and some of my Mormon friends feel the same ( it seems like most of them). The details are important to me and should be to anyone. God says they are important or He wouldn’t have even mentioned the Virgin Birth.

What Mormon Doctrine teaches about the Virgin Birth: They believe that God is a Resurrected, physical man and he is the literal Father of Jesus by the same manner in which men are conceived on earth.

Christ is the Only Begotten …, the Only Begotten Son …, the Only Begotten of the Father. (Moses 5:9.) These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers. Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 546-547

God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says. Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 742

(See also The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, Bookcraft, 1988, p. 6-7; Family Home Evenings Manual, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1972, p. 125-126; Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Macmillan Pub., 1992, p. 725, 729, 739, 740, 1670, 1671; Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115, vol. 11, p. 268; The Seer, p. 158.)

Mormon Doctrine of the Virgin Birth Part 2

Text from Mormon Doctrines with some notes under the text or as introduction (My Notes in Italics).1. God and Mary were married taught by Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158

The flesh body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Savior unlawfully. Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158

Does this seem incestuous to marry your own child and create a child together?

2. The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood-was begotten of his Father, as we are of our fathers. Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:115

In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it. Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 8:2113.

Christ was begotten of God. He was NOT born without the aid of man and that man was God!” Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1:184. Joseph was the second husband of Mary because God was her first husband (Introduction Mine) (the following is Mormon Doctrine):

Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity. Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 1585.

If none but Gods will be permitted to multiply immortal children, it follows that each God must have one or more wives. God, the Father of our spirits, became the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 1586. They again teach that Mary was married to God the Father:The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. By Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 11:2687.

This was taught by Joseph Fielding Smith, 10th Prophet of the Mormon Church:

“They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The book of Mormon teaches No Such Thing! Neither does the Bible!” Doctrines of Salvation, Vol 1:19

What the bible does say (Really says): The bible says she was a Virgin and it was from the Holy Spirit (not sexual) Matthew 1:18-23 & Luke 1: 34-35   THE HOLY BIBLE: King James Version

Matthew 1: 18-23

18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.  19Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.  20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.  21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.  22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,  23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Luke 1: 34-35

34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?  35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

So, the bible believes in the Virgin Birth and the Mormon doctrines do not believe in the TrueVirgin Birth, although they will say they do. If they say they do believe in the True Virgin Birth without sexual intercourse, they do not follow their own doctrines.

See documents for research on this topic: Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, pages 546-547;

8.Bruce R. McConkie was one of 12 Apostles, wrote a book called Mormon Doctrine, and in his book he says:

God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage, And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the son of God, and that designation means what it says. page 742 Mormon Doctrine Bruce McConkie

Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man. “In the language of Adam, Man of Holiness” is the name of God  Page 742 Mormon Doctrine Bruce McConkie

-but the Holy Ghost is not the Father of Christ-and when the Child was born, he was “the Son of the Eternal Father.” Page 743 Bruce McConkie

These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers. Page 546 Mormon Doctrine Bruce McConkie

To accept the Mormon Doctrine would be to make a mockery of the Bible.  It is impossible to believe the Mormon Doctrine and say you believe the Bible. Yet Mitt Romney said he believed in the bible. These are a few things that I wanted to call into the light because I knew it was not true.

God says in His Word In Isaiah Chapter 7: 13-14

13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?

14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Im-man’-u-el. 

There is more on this topic I believe so I will post that as I find time.

  

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