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Archive for the ‘G_D; Faith’ Category

The first documented facts I have listed are under Mormon Doctrine of the Virgin Birth (please see Categories). There will be a part 2 to that, with more doctrine from the church on their stand on the Virgin Birth that isn’t so virginal according to Mormon doctrine. God’s Word says it was just what He said it was, a Virgin Birth.

See post on Joseph Smith saying he was greater than Jesus in his own words and from Mormon doctrine.

This blog is to give information. There is a lot of information out there that is either hate driven or just given by people that truly do not fully understand the differences between Mormonism and True Christianity. I even have Mormon friends that do not fully understand their own faith or what their doctrines teach. Some may be teaching things out of ignorance and others out of deception but the majority just really don’t know what their doctrines really say. Ask any questions you want and I will post information but the documents I will use will be from original sources of Mormon literature because that is the only true source to find true doctrinal information.

It has been concerning to me that people want to NOT believe in Mormonism so bad that they are willing to take information and offer it without really researching the facts. That is a sad affair because true documented facts are necessary for anyone to draw a true conclusion in any matter. False information is harmful to everyone involved. After reviewing the facts you will come to the same conclusion you had when you began your search (if you did not believe that Mormonism was a Christian faith), but at least it will be from true doctrinal sources and false information will not be spread.

I have had little time to post information from documents but I am working hard to give you text as well as reference so you may get your own Book of Mormon and other materials out and find the information for yourself and read it with your own eyes. I will use the documents actually recognized by the church as doctrinal sources so you may read those yourself. I can give you the references if at all possible and you may then look the information up yourself.

It would be great if you could then get out your Bible and check what you read against God’s Word. For His Word is the authority of all things and if it does not line up with what He says….it cannot be so. I will try at some point to put the Mormon doctrine and put verses next to that doctrine where it can be shown in the Bible to be contrary to what God Himself teaches. I have not gotten that far but I am working hard to get you as much information as possible.

In the Christian faith Paul instructed his listeners NOT to rely upon his words or teaching but to search the scriptures DAILY to see if what he said was true. Any faith that asks you to believe their words without searching the scriptures daily to check out what they are saying needs to be in question. If you find something contrary in scripture to what you are hearing that should be a red flag. Thankfully with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the facts don’t ever change. They are the same today as they were when they were written. God is alive and speaks to His people directly. However, He never contradicts what is in the Word of God! He is consistent.

I want to be accountable whether I am speaking about the Christian faith or the Mormon faith. They are clearly two separate things with no common ground as far as faith is concerned but common ground as people, friends, family, and those for which Christ Jesus died because He died for everyone on this planet. It comes down to whether you choose to believe Him or believe in an altered version of Him. That choice will not be made by bullying, fear, or intimidation, it will only come from love and the prompting of the Holy Spirit. However, it is a choice and one He asks us to make. Who will you say that He is? If there was any way to heaven but through Him than he died in vain and His life was a waste of time.

I give information so that there is not confusion because if you have information it allows you to make an informed choice. If you make a choice based on half fact it is not an informed choice and it is deceptive of anyone to offer half truth.

Please ask any questions you have and I will answer what I can from documents that support a doctrine or belief. If I do not know I am not afraid to ask and I will give you information as to the source of the fact or source of the information I gather for your answer. It seems there are many questions out there and so many people don’t know whom they may ask. This is true whether Christian, Mormon, agnostic, or any other faith.

Ask away and I will try to be faithful in answering or finding answers to your questions. I hope I can offer a non-threatening forum that allows questions to be asked and addressed.

Please feel free to email me.

May God richly bless you in your search for truth.

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Comment taken from the salt lake city tribune  December 5, 2007.

On the same website for The Salt Lake Tribune I saw this interesting comment:

A person named Oswald  on 12/5/2007 said he was a member of the LDS faith and this person believes Mitt Romney is pulling the wool over all of the eyes of the Mormons. In Oswald’s claim the Mormons are following Mitt based solely on religion and not looking at his liberal (he says Socialist)record in Massachusetts. It seems this Oswald is very unsatisfied and seems to be asking Mormons to open their eyes and to stop voting based on wanting a Mormon for their president.

It seems a lot like a case of reverse prejudice here…..hmmmm. When they are accusing other Americans of voting against someone based only upon the religion in question (which is ludicrous) it seems some are actually voting based upon religion alone from this person’s comments. That seems interesting and hypocritical if it is true. Good for Oswald in that this person is looking at the facts and not the religion and wants someone who stands for the beliefs this person feels best represent him/her as an American. See folks, there are people with independent thought on both sides. We have to give Americans more credit!! I suppose because this person is an LDS member that they cannot now be accussed of being a bigot like Al Sharpton’s comments on Mitt Romney, or can they?

If you want to read his post go to the Salt Lake City Tribune under the headliner Mormons hope Romney’s speech normalized the LDS church for Dec 5, 2007

http://166.70.44.77/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=7645763&sec=Salt%20Lake%20Tribune%20Home%20Page#120189

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7645763

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 Comment taken from the salt lake city tribune  December 5, 2007.

http://166.70.44.77/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=7645763&sec=Salt%20Lake%20Tribune%20Home%20Page#120189

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7645763

Zina wrote that Romney’s problem is not his religion, but his authenticity…which I agree with Zina.

Zina says that people feel that Romney says what people want to hear, not what he truly believes.

Zina then goes on to give information from a poll said to be based on the LA Times/Bloomberg poll …this poll was taken yesterday I went to the site to confirm the stats. In the new Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll it did reveal that 73% of Republican voters did in fact say that they did not care whether or not Romney is a  Mormon.  So, again this negates those people out there ranting that Christians are so full of hatred that they would vote against Romney based completely upon his Mormon faith.

I feel it was a great comment to show that people do not really have a problem with Mitt Romney’s religion but his authenticity (rightfully, we believe he is lying to us). This would be a great thing for the person to understand that wants to believe that Christians would not vote for a person based on religion alone. If those stats are correct and 73% don’t care about the religion but do care about the authenticity and also HIS SHIFTING STAND on issues then it really blows the theory out of the water that people are only voting based on his religion. I know that I can only truly speak for myself in regard to true intentions because I do not know the inner heart of a man so in saying that I would not ever vote for a person based on religion, gender, political party, or race. I do look at what each person is bringing to the table. I am looking at track records, I am looking at how many times they change their view on subjects on which they claim to be firmly supportive (or not) ( I want someone immovable if they firmly believe in an issue I want to trust they are going to keep their word and not change their vote at the last minute and then try to candy coat an excuse to sell to the American Public as to why they changed their mind, when I look at a candidate I truly look at them and I imagine them sitting at the table with foreign dignitaries or negotiating overseas and I have to believe that these other world leaders are going to take them seriously, that they have a presence, the leaders of the other countries know how we do things, they are up to date on which Senators flip flop and they know their weak spots, if we have someone that they know cannot be moved that message will enter the room long before our president even walks into the room. These are some of the things for which I am looking. I believe in my fellow Americans and I believe that they too are looking for someone who can really lead and someone who says what they mean and they do mean what they say and they will not back down from those firm beliefs. When we vote someone in because they have convinced us that they do take a firm stand on certain issues, we expect that they will keep their word.

To start a political campaign by not being forthcoming, not telling the truth, and skating around questions…. those to me are red flags.

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The story below is taken from civilization watch at ornery.org/essays written by Orson Scott Card we just had comments concerning his statements.

By Orson Scott Card March 18, 2007

Is Mitt Romney Serious?

When I heard that Mitt Romney was actually running for President, my first thought was, “Is he serious?” Doesn’t he know that there is zero chance of a Mormon ever being in the White House? Everyone knows that Christian evangelicals hate Mormons so badly that if they had to choose between a bribe-taking, FBI-file-stealing, relentless-lie-telling, mud-slinging former first lady, and a Mormon ex-governor who doesn’t lie, who’s still married to his first wife, and who supports the entire Christian evangelical agenda, they’d still rather die than vote for a Mormon.  

The above is a short paragraph of the completely ludicrous writing by Orson Scott Card saying that Christian evangelicals hate Mormons as well as his statements about Hilary Clinton that I hope he can prove as well as the fact that he claims to know the moral fiber of Mitt Romney and claims he does not lie…..are you saying he never lies, has never lied, so you Orson Scott Card know the innermost thoughts and can search the heart of Mitt Romney and say he never lies….wow, you’re pretty good. I would have a hard time saying that about anyone because I personally do not know the innermost heart of man. I can vow for those I know closely and say if I personally know their character from personal experience after having known and seen their character for years consistently, but it would be very hard for me to vow they would never lie because although they may not be a known liar and it would not be something I had ever seen from a person I could speak for their integrity, for their history, for the truth I had witnessed in their life on a personal level which could make me a good witness for someone but for Orson Scott Card to write to us and say that Mitt Romney does not lie and that Mitt Romney supports the ENTIRE EVANGELICAL AGENDA he must either be a Mormon himself or he clearly does not know what Mormons believe because it is impossible to be a true Mormon and to support the ENTIRE EVANGELICAL AGENDA when the Christian faith is opposite of the Mormon faith (PLEASE see Mormon or Christian to see the differences in Christian and Mormon fundamental beliefs. He then goes on the show his own hatred of evangelical Christians by saying how much they supposedly hate Mormons. He must not know that a true Christian would never hate a Mormon. A Mormon is not a bad person and a true Christian would not vote against a Mormon because of their belief system and certainly would not say the things he said about Hilary Clinton either without facts to back his claims because otherwise he appears to be a fool (if his claims are substantiated that’s great but if not, this looks very hatred based, and biased (hey freedom of speech, right….sure but we also have the right as American citizens to stand up and say you are incorrect and Mitt Romney does not support the ENTIRE EVANGELICAL AGENDA and it can be proved because if he did support it fully it would go against the very moral fiber and foundation of his fundamental beliefs.

A true Christian would not vote for or against someone because of their faith, because of their gender, or for any other reason other than they truly believed this person could or could not represent America as a whole and they can see the person as a true representative for themselves. There is no reason ANY faith should be the basis for a vote and I repeat there is no reason a person’s gender should be the basis for a vote. It would be short of irresponsible for anyone to believe a woman would lead the country better based solely on her gender. It would be equally irresponsible to vote for a man based solely on his gender. The vote needs to be about the person’s credibility, are they being honest, can we see them leading our country into or out of war, can we see them representing us on every level? It is irresponsible for Orson Scott Card to represent true Christians as hate mongers that would vote against anyone because of their religion and accuse Christian evangelicals of the level of hate he has. In any other matter a Christian as defined by the bible is not to hate a person, not to hate the sinner, but hates the sin. God does not hate the sinner no matter how bad the sin, He simply hates the sin. It would be wise to read the bible before accusing masses of Christian evangelicals of hate. Keep in mind as with any faith there are those that call themselves Mormons that do not walk the walk, there are those that call themselves Christians that do not walk the walk. Those people do not represent their faith, the faith is represented in it’s teachings, documented belief system, by the fundamentals of their faith, not by a few loose guns that try to discredit their own belief system by arrogant and patronizing behavior that goes against every moral fiber they should have if they truly embraced what they claim to believe. A tree is known by its fruit. If they say it’s an apple tree and if gives off rotten oranges you can bet it’s not an apple tree. OK, so this leads to a huge issue at hand….. If Christians do not hate Mormons then what is all the fuss? If people can look past the fact that regardless of what religion someone is claiming to be and see that ;regardless of the faith in the spotlight, if that person were to represent themselves to the country under false pretense to secure a vote, that is wrong. If someone claimed to be a liberal and had liberal friends yet at their very core were quite conservative yet they used the liberal banner to secure votes by deliberate deception that would be wrong. The same would be for any religion. A Jew would not be ashamed of their faith and would not hide their practicing beliefs, A Muslim would not be ashamed to not only say they were Muslim but they would not hide their beliefs and they certainly would not try to say they were of the Christian faith, a Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Non-Denominational or any other practicing Christian of which there are too many denominations to mention would not hide their practicing beliefs, a Jehovah’s witness is very upfront that they are not only not Christian but they tell you the beliefs that contradict the Christian faith, and I cannot think of any other religion that does hide their true religious practices….It is pure deception for a Mormon to represent themselves as a Christian faith and to proclaim this to secure votes and support from the American public who do not know the true beliefs of the Mormons. To start out a campaign under false pretenses is not a safe way to secure votes. To try to represent yourself as wholesome and honest yet you are lying about your fundamental beliefs and saying you are something you are not is deceptive.  Especially when they are saying they are of Christian faith because they are trying to fall under the Christian faith but the fundamental beliefs are OPPOSITE (see below). This is what is being attacked by people here not the faith but the fact that this man is claiming to be something he clearly is not. I believe 100% that if they really believed in themselves and were not ashamed of their beliefs they would just be honest and say the truth. What truth this would be the truth and if they actually said it I would have SO MUCH RESPECT FOR THEM for telling the truth because they were actually being HONEST!!!!!!!! No, we are not Christians, no we do not believe in the virgin birth because we believe that Jesus was conceived through sexual intercourse between God and Marry (in all fairness, some of my Mormon friends do not believe this at all, but since it is a doctrine as far as teaching it is important because a lot of them do believe this, and should if it is doctrine….the difference is that something as important as the Virgin Birth for Christians is not a topic some believe and some don’t. Christians believe Marry was a virgin before she became pregnant with Jesus and was still a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. It is an important topic all Christians believe. There are non-essentials people disagree over but the basics of salvation do not waiver or change and never have), we believe that Jesus and satan are spirit brothers (brothers), we do not practice polygamy here because it is against the law of the land but we do plan to practice it in heaven, we do believe polygamy or the act of having plural wives is practiced in heaven and it is a fundamental belief in our faith, we believe that the god of Mormonism has a father and mother, we believe that true Christians are apostasies, we do believe that every person that enters heaven has to do so with the passport of joseph smith and have to profess the Mormon faith in the afterlife to receive that gift, we do believe that god was a sinful man that became god and we too can also become gods, we say we believe the bible but in truth we do not believe it is the inerrant Word of God, we have to say that we believe it as far as it has been translated correctly and we do read it but the book of mormon is the most complete book on earth…not the bible, we do not have this in our book of Mormon but we endorse the book Marvelous Work and a Wonder by Elder Le Grand Richards in which it states that if every bible were destroyed we would still be teaching the same doctrines and the doctrines would not change…it shows we do not need the bible because it is obviously not the most important book we own, we cannot answer yes or no questions because we have to play word games to hide what we really believe yet we want you to believe we are of the Christian faith and if you say anything to the contrary we will accuse you of bigotry even when you are not truly being a bigot but you are only highlighting the fact that we are being deceitful and not openly honest with our answers. We will also accuse you of hate and persecution when in fact again you are only stating the obvious that your God of the Bible, your Jesus is not the same god of the book of mormon, your Jesus the ONLY begotten son that had no brothers or sisters (because He is the only Son of the Father)  is not the same as our jesus that has satan as his brother, your Virgin Birth that truly means NO SEXUAL INTERCOURSE means just that but our virgin birth had our god of Mormonism having sexual intercourse with Marry and the holy spirit of the book of Mormonism had to overcome her to make that possible because it would be too much for her to bear but the god of Mormonism did not want any other man to have sex with Marry, he wanted to impregnate her himself so the virgin birth to the mormon faith is not truly virginal at all, However if you question us about the True Virgin Birth or our beliefs about the virgin birth of the mormon faith we will tell you that we have to wait until heaven because we do not fully have that answer and we have to wait until heaven where it will be revealed to us then, the God of the Bible lays it out like it is and tells you all you need to know now about the fundamental beliefs and how to get to Heaven but we have to wait until heaven for some pretty serious revelations, but we tell you that we are of the  Christian faith and that is deceiving because we truly do not believe in the same god yet if you ever try to say we believe in a different God we will accuse you of being a bigot and if you challenge Mitt Romney on his faith you are trying to vote for his faith and not his ability to run the country, although deep down we know that you really are not challenging Mitt on his ability but on his deception and that you may not want someone leading the country that is lying about the one thing he has going for him, that he looks like such an honest person. It would be great if they would just tell the truth about these things because that is what true Christians and hopefully anyone even Atheist should be concerned about not the faith but the fact that this is crooked and deceitful. Just tell it like it is, don’t pretend to be something you are not!!!!! 

If you freak out about the fact that you think Hillary Clinton is a liar then why not question the honesty of a man that is obviously lying about what he says he holds so dear. You question Hillary on her skating around questions yet Mitt Romney is doing the same thing. Orson Scott Card says Mitt Romney does not lie and that is curious. People, we have beautiful minds and we deserve more credit than these people are trying to give.

 Here’s the deal: If you are given the truth, if Mitt Romney actually told you the truth about the true beliefs of the Mormon faith then it would be out in the open and not a big deal. The problem is that he’s hiding the truth. Most people are just interested because they don’t understand the beliefs and what the differences might be. So, why lie to them? Why not just come right out and say what they believe, full disclosure? Of what are they so afraid? They don’t believe the American public are smart enough to handle the truth and that is very patronizing. The American public is more than capable of making decisions for themselves when they are given true facts and it is deceitfully wicked to challenge the competence and intellect of the American public and treat them like foolish children and assume they don’t have the mental capacity to hear the truths….. like Mormons believe that their god had sexual intercourse to get Marry pregnant and so on and still say ok, we don’t believe that but now we know. We are amazing, talented, creative, wonderful people, most of whom have open minds and open hearts that truly asked an honest question and in return are being given a load of lies. Keep checking back because this is not an anti-mormon blog it is asking the Mormons to just tell the truth like any other religion. Then this would not be an issue in the political world at all, the issue does fall on the fact that they are misleading us purposely and then attack us saying anyone that questions the fact that the God of the Bible is not the same as the god of the book of mormon. It isn’t the same God…..how is that bigotry that is just truth. So, if they just said it (because it is the truth) then we could move on!!!!

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Are Mormons Christians
According to Jesus Christ of the Bible? You decide….

Mormons insist they are Christians but just not by the same definition. They say they believe in Jesus and the very name of their church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However, if they believe in the same Jesus, they would certainly believe in what Jesus Christ taught. Did Jesus teach the following in the Bible: 1. The plurality of Gods2. The baptism for the dead done in holy temples

3. Celestial marriage which no unworthy member or outsider can attend

4. Polygamy needed to become a God

5. Blacks were cursed with a black skin (why Sharpton and so many others have a right to be offended).

6. You can become a God if you are worthy; celestial marriage required

7. We were all pre-existent spirits

8. God has a body of flesh and bones

9. We have a Heavenly Mother

10. There are three levels of heaven. To go to the highest kingdom, you must be a Mormon. Honorable persons go to the Terrestrial kingdom. The dishonest, liars, sorcerers, adulterers and whoremongers go to the Telestial kingdom .

11. God and his wife achieved a celestial marriage

12. Heavenly Father died just like Jesus

13. God was once just like us

14. God has a father and His Father has a Father, etc.

15. Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers

16. Jesus and Lucifer each had a plan to people the earth. Jesus’ plan was chosen and caused Lucifer to rebel and he and the angels that followed him were cast out of heaven.

17. God lives near a star called Kolob

18. Temple endowments are so sacred that you must be worthy to enter

19. The gates of hell will prevail against the church and I will not be able to keep it together

20. In the future, you will need a living prophet’s (Joseph Smith) consent to enter the celestial kingdom

21. Not everything you’ll need to know concerning salvation will be recorded in the Bible but there will be additional light. The God of the Bible tells everything you need to know concerning salvation and leaves no questions, you know that you know that you know if you have salvation and are going to heaven. The Mormons I know never know if they are going to get into heaven or which of their three heavens they will actually be allowed to enter. There are lots of essential information that will not be revealed until they get to heaven so they serve a god that does not fully disclose to them the basics to provide them with SECURITY of their own salvation……that seems so cruel. The God of the bible is not cruel and wants each person to know they can rest in peace and fully know how to attain salvation and how to fully know that they have a place in heaven. He is so kind that He provides information now, so there is no fear because the God of the bible is not a God of fear. It is sad my friends will go their entire life not ever knowing if they are good enough. Christians know they are not good enough but God’s love is good enough.

It is not because Mormons don’t agree with the definition of Christianity. It’s because they teach doctrines that Jesus never taught. Their church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Christian church is the church of Jesus Christ of the Bible. There are clear and distinct differences so it is deceitful to say they are the same. To say or imply that they are both of the Christian faith is not true.

The reason that I am posting this is to show the differences between the Christian faith and the Mormon faith but ONLY because they claim they believe in the same God and the same Bible. If the Mormons did not claim they were a Christian Faith then there would be no need for this post. I have never met a Christian that claimed they were Mormon, so why would a Mormon claim to be a Christian? This information is important because they are claiming something that I personally know is not true because I have devout Mormon family and I have both Mormon and Christian friends and they are clearly VERY different faiths. Most people may not have friends and family of several faiths so many people are left wondering about the differences. It bothers me that I do know the difference and I am hearing things said that are not true. What someone believes ;is what someone believes, but when they try to claim that they are something other than what they are that bothers me no matter what the religion. A lie by omission, by careful wording saying one thing yet meaning another is still a lie. I wish people could just believe in themselves enough to just stand up and say yes this is what I believe and I am not a Christian by any stretch and do not believe in the God of the Bible (but in whatever god they do follow) and just say it. They may be fooling people but God knows so it’s only a matter of time and they will stand before God and He will know the truth anyway.

The most difficult thing is that religion or choice not to have religion is a personal choice and very intimate. It is not something anyone has to discuss or has to disclose; however, once someone chooses to start disclosing and the information is not truthful that poses a real problem and sadly is a disgrace to what they claim to represent.

I also have friends of other faiths and if there was a church claiming to be of the same faith and I personally knew it was not true that would be just as disgraceful. It just so happens that there are Mormons claiming to be Christians yet if they were claiming to be Jewish, Muslim, or another religion and were truly 100% opposite of those faiths fundamentally, that would be the issue. It does not make sense to me why any faith would claim to hold the same values as another faith when they truly do not? Why not just be secure in what YOU believe and stand up for who YOU are as an individual and not try to convince the world you are someone you are not?

In the end ;with the information given, it is up to you to decide….Are Mormons Christians and do they serve the same God as the Bible? I know what I believe and I know what is true but this information is for those out there that do not know the difference between the two faiths that are both claiming to be Christian. The proof is overwhelming and only ONE conclusion can be drawn if you believe what Jesus Christ of the Bible says. It is not about what I profess to believe it is what Jesus says and WHO He says He is. When it comes to making that judgement….some say who am I to judge, well because it was brought to public attention and addressed in a public forum (You/We) are the people to judge. You were given that right by the very people claiming they are a Christian organization. The moment they chose to disclose information it gave you the right to make a judgment call whether or not you are hearing the truth. Some people do not care and this blog would not be for them. This blog is for those that want more information so that they can make decisions based on fact and on their own intellect and research. Feel free to comment whether Mormon, Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Other, or undecided.

In the end, I hope that the information provided in these posts will give you proper information that encourages you to research for yourself to see that what I am saying is true and to see that the information that you have been given by people verbally claiming to be Christians is deceiving at worst and naive at best.

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